Engineer in Chief in his recent report, and he had measurements taken in all the channels.

12242. I am not talking about the channels, but of the ground fall. You distribute the water after it leaves the channels to ungraded orchards. If unsound ground is met with, how do you propose to take the water over orchards if you meet with veins of sand or gravel?—There has been no serious difficulty experienced at Harvey in that respect. There is a great deal of land in Australia like that. It sometimes means that water cannot be taken as far. In a greater part of the Harvey irrigation the water is taken 10 chains or further. That is a very long way to take the water.

12243. Do you take it successfully 10 chains as a general practice at Harvey?—Yes, where the grade will permit. I know of very few cases where they have shortened that course, for the purpose of giving a better watering. It is understood as an axiom that the shorter the length of the furrow, the more easy the watering. Of course it means a good deal of expense to cut up a 10-acre block. The Harvey people are watering right across wherever the grade suits.

12244. In irrigation settlements are blocks usually laid out 10 x 10 as in the case, I understand at Harvey?—No, they are laid in various shapes. I laid out Renmark 5 x 20, except the frontage blocks, but the majority of the blocks were laid out in that way. The Mildura blocks were 10 acres, but they were about 15 x 6½.

12245. Were you never warned personally by any persons that you would have trouble at Harvey in conveying the water by open channels and distributing it over the land after conveying it by those channels?—Yes. Several people irrigating from the river before the scheme was put in, found certain places where water got away. We also found the same thing in the new channels, but we took steps, and satisfactory steps, and we have no difficulty in getting the water anywhere in the area.

12246. You were warned?—I knew it; it always occurs. At Mildura we lost a tremendous amount at first. The bottom of the channels, in some cases, used practically to fall out at the start. We would fill them up and make them all right. It is possible to take water with a little bit of work on almost any ground. A skin is very soon formed, as will be noticed in Perth and Subiaco. In these particular areas some years ago there were no stormwater difficulties, but it has now been necessary to construct large stormwater drains to take the water because the sand which originally absorbed the water has become choked.

12247. The opinion seems to be held in some quarters that Harvey was not naturally well designed for an irrigation settlement. Will you express an opinion on that?—To a person who only contemplated a scheme for arid areas, Harvey in the first view might be considered as being sufficiently provided, but we have rather a peculiar climate in Western Australia as regards the incidence of rain, somewhat similar to the Mediterranean, where irrigation is practised, half the year being practically dry and the other half wet. The scheme at Harvey, in connection, at any rate, with citrus fruits, might be regarded more in the nature of an insurance than absolute necessity. It is possible that in a very favourable year the land might be allowed to go without water at Harvey, but there have been other years when it has been absolutely necessary, in order to keep the trees vigorous, to supply water. As regards the use of the land for purposes other than orange growing, it is impossible to grow summer potatoes at Harvey without water, or summer feed, and the growth of summer feed at Harvey is just as luxuriant with water as it is in a semi-arid climate. Taking it all round, with its proximity to the railway, its type of soil, and its climate, I think that Harvey is particularly well suited for irrigation. There are other portions of the State, Waroona, for instance, where the land is better graded than it is at Harvey, but there are few other places which are better than Harvey where the water can be made available.

12248. You do not think there are any risks in contemplating an irrigation scheme for Harvey?—That is so.

12249. The settlers there appear to hold the idea that the agreement that was made with them provided that the water was to be laid on to the highest point of the blocks in each case. They say that this has not been done and that the agreement has not been kept in that respect?—There was a misunderstanding. It was never agreed that the water would be taken to the highest point on the block, but that it would be provided at the boundary at a sufficient height to command the highest point on the block.That is provided in the by-laws.

12250. Your descriptive matter reads, "The channels and main will be laid in such a way as to command each block where there is any difficult watering, and the head ditch design has been prepared for every such case." Would that impression that the water was to be put at the highest point of the block?—That was explained. The head ditch belonged to the owner. I have provided detailed irrigation arrangements for the owner of each block. A foolscap plan has been given showing the contours for every 3 inches, and showing where the owner should put his head ditch, and the best way for him to water. That is what was referred to in connection with the head ditches. The head ditches were not a portion of the Government part of the scheme. Under the by-laws of any irrigation scheme the handling of the water on the property is the responsibility of the owner. The responsibility of the vendor ceases at the boundary. As I stated there, the channels were constructed in such a way to command the highest point of any block.

12251. That is, the channel on the boundary may be, say, 12 feet high and the settler would have to find some way of conveying the water from that place to the highest point on his block?—That would not be done. If there was much difficulty, advantage would be taken of the Act to exempt a certain area from rating. In any irrigation scheme there are always pieces of land difficult to get at. There are not many of these at Harvey, but in the larger schemes there are whole areas which cannot be economically served. These pieces are exempted when the time arrives for rating. At Harvey, if there were any abnormal cases, in which it was difficult to serve a portion of a block, not attempt would be made to serve it, but that portion would be exempt. There is one case there in which we do not supply the water, and the owner is due for exemption