work was done before they had settled down. I know that many of the settlers at Harvey do not agree with me, but I consider that the seepage from the channels represents perhaps three per cent. of the whole of the water put on.

12366. Do you think it is a business proposition to pay 17s. 6d. per acre, such as has been struck for the Harvey area?—No, it is not a fair rate. I do not think the people ever agreed to that. The outside price should be 12s. 6d. per acre, and this would be about double what it is in any other irrigation scheme in Australia. The maximum, in my opinion, should be 12s. 6d., and even that is too high. The settlers cannot pay 17s. 6d. The scheme was humbugged about through various strikes and other happenings and instead of taking from 12 months to 18 months to build, it took from five to six years to build. During that period all these people who were looking for irrigation found their trees were going back for want of water. When they did get the water their trees had already gone so far back that they hardly had a chance. All this might have been discovered and rectified three years ago, and these men should have been on a good wicket by this time, instead of spending their lives and their money on replanting and cultivating in the almost daily expectation of getting the water. The long delay which occurred has been a tremendous factor in the present distress that exists at the Harvey. If they had known that all this delay was in front of them, instead of working as they did, they would have simply waited until the water came. The Government are to blame, and owe us the amende honourable for the delay which has occurred. It was only a twopenny halfpenny work after all, and should have been completed within 12 months. Notwithstanding all those circumstances, my estate has always paid the cost of improvements and other things, but has left very little over. If I could do that with 16 acres under trees, surely it would be a good thing with 30 acres. The idea that the place is not a satisfactory situation for settlement should be entirely abandoned in people's minds. Being an early settler, and absolutely ignorant, and being in the hands of people who were equally wise, I bought whatever I could, and got from nurseries what there was to get. I bought trees which were known by the name of Australian navels, and this class of tree does not thrive in Harvey whatever it may do elsewhere. When these trees do come to anything, the fruit is very poor. This is not a wild cat scheme at all. With the knowledge that the settlers now have and with a proper drainage system this ought to be a big thing. It ought to be a downright prosperous centre.

12367. By Mr VENN: Even on the shallow clay land?—I have some of that. It is only necessary to drain properly. If you put down your drains from four to five feet deep, you will never get the water above that, and will have quite good stuff for the growing of trees. It soon gets broken up when it is worn through, and never sets again when once it has been gone through. In every alternate row of trees in my orchard I have pipes put in. Wherever the drains are put down on this so-called clay, I find that the roots go right into the soil three or four feet down. There is a nice loose earth on top. We have had to dig down to the pipes on several occasions to find out whether they have blocked, and we have discovered that this subsoil has never set.

12368. By the CHAIRMAN: Does your land drain freely in winter?—Yes.

12369. Do the drains never back up and interfere with the drainage?—No, not to make any difference. I did not drain the place for six years after I had it, and all through the winter one could not put a plough on it at all. The conditions are quite different.

12370. Would you plant citrus trees yourself on some of the low-lying ground that you speak of?—Not under present conditions. I would not hesitate to do that if there was good drainage there, and if I could put down drains four feet deep on the lowest of the land, and the worst looking, I would put in orange trees. There would have to be a surface of a few inches or a foot of earth on top of it. It is astonishing to see what has been done in the way of orchards on some of this soil. If the land is irrigated and drained it is all right. Mr Moody and I went on to one place consisting of land of this description, and he said to me, after looking at the well grown trees, "I know no more about orange trees than I did about my hat." On this particular place there was about six inches of soil and below it was blue clay and clays of other kinds. The land was being irrigated, and there was a good slope to it and the trees were looking magnificent. In a hollow a little further away the trees were not nearly so well grown. Provided I had rapid and a deep enough drainage, I would not hesitate to use that class of soil. It is most necessary to keep the table water down.

(The witness retired.)

The Commission adjourned.

By Authority: FRED WM. SIMPSON, Government Printer, Perth.