7604. You are in a position to state the feeling of the millers in regard to the matter?—Yes.

7605. The millers have excused themselves for not sending in proper weekly returns on the score of the agreement not being finalised?—That is partly their excuse.

7606. Is it not a justifiable one?—I do not think so. It is the Scheme's wheat the millers are gristing. They consider they are entitled to payment for the services they perform, and that being so they should render the returns as required by the agreement.

7607. If you entered into an agreement with me and you finalised it from your side, and I failed to carry out my part of the agreement, would you not think that I was bound to do so?—Yes, but if, I expected payment in accordance with the terms of the agreement, and was doing the work required I consider that I would have to furnish returns required by the agreement.

7608. You would not be aware that the terms had been agreed to until you had my signature?—Not absolutely I suppose.

7609. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN: What is your position in the Scheme?—I am inspector of accounts.

7610. What milling experience have you had?—For 2½ years I was accountant at the Geraldton mill. Prior to that I was in the wheat business with Geo. Wills at Geraldton, and afterwards with John Darling and Louis Dreyfus.

7611. You have a general knowledge of accountancy work, milling returns, and so on?—Yes.

7612. To what mills did you refer when you said you had difficulty in getting in the returns?—The Katanning, York, and Wagin mills and Ockerby's mill. The others were also backward.

7613. Do all the mills keep shift returns?—Yes, with the exception of Padbury's mill. At that mill there is a slate recording the quantity of produce manufactured. From this slate is entered into a small book products milled during each shift and the total for the week, etc., but we have no check from the shift mill return into this book, in the case of this mill.

7614. In other cases you get the millers' shift returns?—Yes.

7615. By Mr. BROWN: Have you seen this particular return signed by Mr. Child?—I have not examined it in detail.

7616. The column I am concerned in is that under the heading of "waste." Have you any knowledge of the correctness of these figures?—I think the figures are an estimate by the mill inspector, Mr. Gillespie. He has based them on the class of wheat which is going through the mills, also taking into consideration the class of mill and milling machinery, and how the wheat is being treated.

7617. You see .73 or .75 of a pound in the case of that top mill. And towards the bottom you see Northam .18 lbs. and Perth mill .25 lbs. According to your experience would those be fair invisible waste averages on a bushel of wheat?—We have had a cleanup at two mills, Guildford and Perth. Perth .25 is just about what the invisible waste came to. At Guildford about the same invisible waste was shown, perhaps a shade more than Perth mill figures.

7618. In view of those figures would you consider that the Scheme are losing considerable money in the various returns from the wheat which has been put through the mills, comparing one mill with another, as regards yields of flour and bran and pollard?—In some cases, of course, the percentages of flour are low and the percentages of waste high. A lot depends on the class of wheat a mill has been gristing. All mills have not been working on the same class of wheat. If a mill has been having exceptionally bad wheat and gets a low percentage of flour and perhaps a little more waste, it may be doing its work as well as a mill working on better wheat, which mill has shown more flour and less waste.

7619. By the CHAIRMAN: You said Mr. Gillespie dealt with that matter?—Yes: more than I did. It is more in his line. I am practically only on the accounts.

7620. By Mr. BROWN: Would you know whether there was any way for a miller to dispose of goods belonging to the Scheme in an improper manner?—I suppose it could be done. A cart might drive up to a mill door and take away some bran or flour, etc., and that might not be recorded anywhere.

7621. Then the Scheme have no check on the honesty of the miller?—No absolute check.

7622. By the CHAIRMAN: That is, until a clean up takes place?—Yes.

7623. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN: The only way of accounting for it by the miller if it happened would be for him to increase the percentage of invisible waste?—If his milling returns show a certain quantity made, and he has not delivered that quantity or has not got it on hand, he will show a shortage in his stocks, assuming that the mill returns are all right.

7624. You do not always get correct mill returns?—That is so.

7625. By Mr. HARRISON: Such a miller would also show a shortage of bran and pollard?—Not necessarily so. If his milling returns were correct and he had accounted for all his bran and pollard and his stocks were all right, I fail to see it.

7626. If he were getting less flour percentage, he would show more offal?—Yes.

7627. By Mr. BROWN: Is it part of your work to see that the accounts are paid?—I have to keep a check on this and to report on the condition of the accounts in conjunction with my other work. When I attend a mill I always ascertain the position of its account with the Scheme, and if any money is owing by the mill I see that same is remitted to head office promptly.

7628. You knew what the agreement provided as to returns being sent in and payments being made?—Yes.

7629. Is that being adhered to pretty closely?—As closely as we can, seeing that we had no returns at all on which to make up an accurate account. At the time you speak of I was away in the country working back stocks, and that occupied all my time and attention just at that period. The gristing accounts of the mills were practically not dealt with by me at the time.

7630. In the course of your work do you do anything in the form of auditing?—I do the work of checking all the sales of the mills, and all their operations, so far as the accounts are concerned; the prices they sell at, and account for to the Scheme, etc.

7631. By Mr. HARRISON: Is it your duty to check the stocks?—Yes.

7632. Have you found any difficulty?—In some of the mills we have not had a clean up since the stocks were worked back.

7633. Are the mills stacking on the square so that you can count?—Not all the mills. They are much better than they were when we attempted to count last year. Mr. Gillespie will give you all information as to that.

7634. If you have the accountancy work and do not check the stocks but depend on Mr. Gillespie, how do you arrive at a conclusion?—You mean, without a clean up. I check all the mills make and all they deliver, and I check their records showing certain stocks. Without a clean up I cannot say whether that stock is there or whether it is not there. In some of the mills it is not always possible to get a count.

7635. By the CHAIRMAN: It means that you merely do the clerical work and that Mr. Gillespie does the practical work of counting?—I do all the accountancy work, and he looks after the wheat which the mills receive, and the percentages they extract, and the way they protect and care for their stocks, etc.

7636. Having so many mills to attend to, you could not do the lot yourself?—No. It has been a pretty heavy handicap to have to spend most of six or seven months, working back the stocks to the 3rd November and keep up with current work also.

7637. Do the accountancy officers keep you well informed regarding the accounts?—Yes. Whenever I am going out to a mill. I get a statement of that mill's account as far as it has been made up from the returns which have come in.

7638. In that way you are fully conversant with how each mill stands relatively to the Scheme?—Wherever the account is up to date I get a statement of it, and so I know how the mill stands.

7639. I suppose you are aware that the millers have now got their agreements?—I understand that is so.

7640. And so the millers cannot put up any excuse to you that the agreement has not been finalised?—No.